Ep 518 | Running blindfolded, unguided and in total silence for 24 hours with Alex Bance

Speaker 1: 0:00

Bad boy bad boy bad boy, bad boy, bad boy, bad boy. Hey, do bad as well. Welcome to Bad Boy Running and our next guest. We've just finished the interview, and well, firstly, if you want to know about ear blisters never heard of that one before Ear blisters. Ear blisters.

Speaker 2: 0:16

Well, you might get them from listening to this podcast. This is from actual running.

Speaker 1: 0:20

True, true, it is late to the story, but also we've never had a guest where you hear about a challenge and a half way through this one potentially is the hardest one we've ever had on, and the element that I think you enjoy is the interplay of genuinely thinking. Am I going to lose my mind? Could this be me? Done mentally for forever? Mental institution, not the physical. It's weird. 100 miles of 24 hours, well, 24 hours of 100 miles a day.

Speaker 2: 0:53

That was the easy bit of this race.

Speaker 1: 0:55

Yeah, absolutely bonkers. So thanks for the suggestions. Do bad as who recommended our next guest and tucking because you're going to enjoy it. Cheers, nick.

Speaker 3: 1:05

They're bad, they're boys and occasionally they talk about running. Yes, it's the Bad Boy Running Podcast with your hosts Jody Rainsford and David Heller. Come back, Baby, come back when the vibe, vibe, vibe, vibe, vibe, vibe, vibe, vibe, vibe. I must admit I was a clown to be messing around, but that doesn't mean that you have to leave town, town.

Speaker 1: 1:33

So do bad, as we always say, we always ask you to recommend people to interview on the podcast, and our next guest was a do bad, a suggestion. And when we heard about the challenge, we thought we've got to hear about this, because Alex has not only done a 24 hour run, but he did it with completely blinded and with no hearing whatsoever, which, when you see the pictures, always yeah it's fairly mind blowing. So we wanted to hear all about why this has happened, but also, how do you train for something like that? What was it like to do and what is how does it change how you approach not only running but but life in general? So welcome to the podcast, the one for Alex Bunce. Hi guys, Thanks for having me on my pleasure.

Speaker 4: 2:21

I mean, you've got quite a set up in the background. Tell us about it. So this is my clinic, so I'm a sports therapist and I used to rent premises in town and then, during the lockdowns, my partner at the time was like why are you paying someone else's rent when you can just build a cabin in your garden? So that's what I did I built a cabin in my garden. So that's what I did a bit of a cabin, and now this is where I work from.

Speaker 2: 2:47

The pain cabin.

Speaker 4: 2:49

That's it. There's some interesting and colourful language that comes out of this place.

Speaker 1: 2:56

I see. Does it change the way? Do you think it changes customer experience? Do you? When people come, some people are hesitant to come into someone's garden and do you think they actually get a very different kind of? Do they view the business differently?

Speaker 4: 3:11

So before I say it was the idea came about in lockdown too. So when we come out of that, I was speaking to people who were coming to me and I was saying, look, if I did this, how would that you feel about it? And I was expecting, you know, people from the other room. Yeah, ok, maybe. But what I got instead was please do that, mate. I hate driving to town, I hate paying for parking, I never know how long I've got to get in. So everyone was really like, yeah, please do it. So I was like, ok, and where I was before it was kind of a strange set up where it was like a buzz of entry system. You came up a stairwell, down the corridor and I was at the end. So if you were, you know, a woman on your own for the first time at eight o'clock at night, there was no one else in the building at that time at night, so that was quite daunting, whereas here, you know, they're on my drive and it's a more sort of inviting environment to come into rather than locked away at the top floor of some building.

Speaker 1: 4:16

And that's good for you, because a lot of women have been fearful to walk into some of my house in the past, so it's a Thankfully not right.

Speaker 2: 4:26

No, if you put a shed out the back, I mean literally people just be like wait, there's a whole number of things that could be in that shed Imagination is probably worse than the reality.

Speaker 1: 4:37

But when you tell us about how did this, this idea, come about?

Speaker 4: 4:42

OK, so it's well. It's quite a long story. Way back in 2019, I was trying to teach my children a lesson, and the lesson I was trying to teach them was if you say you can or you say you can't, you're always right. And I was trying to get this into their heads, but they were they were young at the time and just irritated. And then we're going oh yeah, dad, I mean how young are we talking?

Speaker 2: 5:09

You're like you're screaming at an 18 month old. Do you know what?

Speaker 4: 5:13

Why is your mindset so good at an average? It's only you that's holding you back. We're talking about about 13, 12, 13.

Speaker 2: 5:26

OK, yeah, totally see that, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: 5:29

So I thought to myself you know, you know well, you know that's, rather than just lecture, I'll show them. And that's how I got introduced to the world of culture. So I run them. I've done lots of bits and bobs of running. The biggest thing I've done was a half marathon and then I found the London Brighton 100 K and I was like, well, I'm going to say I'm going to run 100 K, so I will, and then they can see me work towards it and eventually achieve it. It was a disaster, but I did it. What were they?

Speaker 2: 5:56

Did they know it was a disaster?

Speaker 4: 5:58

They didn't want me to come over like finished. I know you, that was absolutely.

Speaker 2: 6:03

Wow, daddy's work so hard to be in so much pain we're never, going to do whatever that is.

Speaker 4: 6:07

Why are you walking?

Speaker 1: 6:08

like that.

Speaker 4: 6:11

But so what I was doing? I thought, well, I want to do it. You know, double it up, do it for some charity. So I had to look about and that's when I came across Julius House, who were children's hospice near me and then they're local to Wiltshire and Dorset, so I thought that sort of ticking off my boxes, went and did an open day with them and it was just, you know, it was an amazing experience in the world they do, which is blew my mind. So I thought, yeah, I'm definitely raising money for you. So that year I raised about one thousand two hundred. The next year I did my first 100, marla, and I got about one thousand one hundred. The following year I raised seventy five pounds. Dude, ok, people are bored of this. Now they're getting it. I wasn't, you know, I've been pushing it before, but I kind of plateaued.

Speaker 2: 7:00

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 7:00

So back in March this year I was out for a run and I was thinking, right, I need to get my fundraising going again and it used to be. It needs to be bigger and different, you know, for people to put their hand in their pocket. So I was on a run that's when I was thinking about it and I thought, right, well, it's not just a hospice, they do respite care with children with life-limiting conditions. And I was like, ok, so I was thinking about when it struck me, when I was there, they said they cared for deaf and blind children. And that really just blew my mind. I was like how I couldn't even comprehend. If you've never heard a word, you've never seen a thing, you know what does your mind do in that space? And that's when it sort of came to me. I was like, well, you know, they say a 24 hour runs like a microcosm of life in a day. So if I did that deaf and blind you know that's relevant to the cherry. It's different, it's out there, people may sponsor it. I thought this is great. So I got home and I thought if you sit down and have a cup of tea, you will think about this and there is no way I know if you will do it. So I just got straight on the phone to them, rang them up and I said, look, I've had this idea. And they were like, oh, that's really good. I was like, yeah, because you're not doing it. But OK, yeah, and that's where it spawned from, yeah, through the idea out, and it kind of snowballed from there.

Speaker 2: 8:19

And did you, when you come up with that initial idea, yeah, where they kind of like a hundred percent in terms of the concept, were there any concerns? Because I know that with things like the ice bucket challenge and stuff like that that again that's kind of about replicating like part of the disease and having that experience there's always some pushback. There's some pushback that. Was there any anything like that that came up? You know, of course, the charity loves you doing it, but, yeah, any concerns about anything like that that came up about? Yeah, I'm realising it, or anything else.

Speaker 4: 8:49

I think there was. I kind of remember there was a conversation about not on our insurance, mate.

Speaker 2: 8:55

I really oh wow.

Speaker 4: 8:58

Not quite as brutal as that, but I was like, yeah, I get the idea.

Speaker 1: 9:03

From the charity or from your business or from the track.

Speaker 4: 9:07

From the charity and the track to prepare the charity. They've always massively supportive. The running tracks owned by two sets of people, so Coastarc, the Salisbury Running Athletics Club and South Wales Grammar School. They co-own it and all three of those elements made my life. You know it was. It was stress. We're trying to organise this. Those three elements may not be easier. They all really went out of their way and helped me out on that. But yeah, it was very much. This is your idea, this is your thing, this, whatever happens, this isn't on us, dude. Make sure you're covered, because it is not on our insurance company.

Speaker 1: 9:44

So she actually got separate insurance G. I did not promise I was going to say I was like what is that conversation?

Speaker 4: 9:53

I told him I thought, mate, I've got public liability coming up my arse. I was like yeah, whatever, I just do it.

Speaker 1: 10:00

And at that stage was the 100 case till the longest you'd run.

Speaker 4: 10:04

No, I don't have done. At that point I'd done Two, I'd done 200 miles. At that point I'd done a third of two 100 miles before I started. So this year I did another two on top of that.

Speaker 1: 10:22

And having just how long were they. Were you around the 24 hour mark there, or were you?

Speaker 4: 10:26

Yeah, so I did a math. I did three of them, you know, in July 24.

Speaker 1: 10:32

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: 10:33

So I did three in July 24, one virtual, two real time and I did one at Run Sandroom. That's quite a new event and you started up this year. I did one there as well. So it was five mile loops 24 hours. How many loops can you do?

Speaker 1: 10:49

And and so then, because I've seen the Instagram where you've got a blindfold on what else, what are the other rules then? Because you, OK there's at some point you could you not see for the entire 24 hours? Or are there rules in there that when you're at an aid station or when you're, you can check up a watch or like how do, how do you actually?

Speaker 4: 11:18

Yeah so. So I had the initial idea and then I sat and I thought, well. I thought well, has anyone done this before? I thought you know. So I started Googling. The closest thing I could find was these three Canadian guys. And what they did is they locked themselves in ISO containers with treadmills and they did it on them. So then I thought, well, if this hasn't been done before, could this be a world record? So I emailed the details over to Guinness, who came back and said no, we're not going to do that as a world record, right, but what you can go for instead is furthest distance run in 25 hours in a blindfold. So they didn't want to touch the depth element, but this is so, but this in the blindfold that you can go for that record which you get a sense of why. No, they just straight rejected it and offered me an alternative. They're not very chatty Guinness, to be fair, but so then they can monetize, so they can monetize the blind one separately, probably.

Speaker 2: 12:21

That's why yeah.

Speaker 4: 12:22

The money they charge, dude. Yeah, I haven't paid them any, but it means I've had to do a lot. They wanted a minimum of eight and a half thousand pounds, plus food, travel and accommodation, to send it officially to cater. So I left that. So they sent me the criteria for the deaf, blind one, which, no, they're just a deaf, so it's just a death, and it was. It was fairly straightforward. You know you have to wear a blindfold, you have to start, stop at the same point each time. In between laps you can remove everything, you know, as long as only when you're running you had a blindfold on. That's the only thing you had to do to attempt the record. But I was like that's not what I'm trying to do. What I'm trying to do is life in a day, deaf and blind. So I put my own rules on and they were. Nothing came off from start to finish. So I'd wear everything the whole time and I wanted the absolute minimum human contact I could possibly have. So I didn't want anyone to interfere with me and they're something I've gone wrong, which they did a couple of, like string broken and I was calling around the grass like a lunatic trying to find it. Someone had to put me back on the track. But I've heard from. I didn't want any human contact and I didn't want anything to come off from from beginning to end.

Speaker 1: 13:40

So string break. That then means so you had string showing you the route of the track.

Speaker 4: 13:47

Yeah, I had to end up buying some Electric fence posts. You know what used for cattle. So they went down the sides of the bunny track, but on the bends it's, it's still asphalt, is stuff. So I had to put out hurdles. So the hurdles went out and the string went round the hurdle. I didn't jump the hurdles, there was side on but and I did. I mean I only did One test run, so me and my mate Mark went down there eggs it all out. I did it for an hour. I batted my hand on the hurdles, I. So what ended up? Does that okay? So I end up tying in bits of jay cloth about half a meter before the hurdle. So when I hit it I knew to lift my hand off Of the string and then hit the hurdle rather than bashing to the side a bit. And that went quite well. You know it was. It was an hour bit fell about 40 minutes and I thought that was good. I didn't want to do another one because I thought it's a disaster, then I'm going to go into it in a real bad headspace. So I thought we'll leave it at that. But what I did identify was the the big headphones I got, I could still hear a little bit. So then I had to. I bought about three or four different In-ear headphones and I was trying because you're wearing these aftershock.

Speaker 1: 15:06

Is that why? Because that that's gonna be. Is it because you're wearing these aftershock now? Were you wearing those as your?

Speaker 4: 15:12

No, no, no no, I, I've got these weird, so like little upside-down, like little Christmas trees which went in my ears and it's good Like noise protection, things over the top, and the combination of the two pretty much Cancelled out everything that. The blindfold was amazing. That just blacked out everything straight away.

Speaker 2: 15:32

And wait. So when you, when you, when you went out for that hour-long run, yeah, like, how did that feel at the start? Was it exactly as you expected we, anything that was different about what you, what you kind of expecting it was?

Speaker 4: 15:46

it was, um, I thought I Thought I was limping Christie man, that track. I thought I thought I'm flying here, dude, I'm like, I'm like going like the wind. And then I looked at my minute mom. I was like 12 minute mom, what it was. It was weird, um, but it kind of it fell on that practice run. I felt a lot more comfortable than I thought I was going to, so it filled me up confidence. I was like, actually this isn't too bad. You know, hit the post Working my way round, I can navigate. I came off the string two or three times, found it very easily. I was like, okay, yeah, this, this feels all right, I'm not too worried about this. Meanwhile, in the background, when I was looking into you know, has this been done before? When I found it hasn't, my next Google search was can sensory deprivation send you mad? And it was just yeah, yeah, don't do it for more than 20 minutes, generally saying 20 minutes, oh yeah, but I think that's when you go in. You know those weird ass Chamber rooms where there's nothing like you just yeah it's like 20, 30 minutes of that last morning, anything before. So I was like, okay, no, I'm not completely deprived, you know I'm still running, you know, um, it's different. So I just thought, well, see what happens hey so this is it.

Speaker 2: 17:08

This is one of those things where your support crew is really, really important. Like who did you, did you have a very clear idea of like? I trust these people, I like these people, but maybe I don't trust them as much. With me ready, you know? Did the whether any special considerations you had to make, you know, knowing that they were gonna. You know, if stuff that goes wrong, you know, or they need to constantly keep an eye out for you to make sure everything's okay, because you, you don't have any control of your senses.

Speaker 4: 17:35

So for Guinness I needed to have two independent witnesses who could only do a four hour stint at a time. So I had to source those people in. They were kind of. I threw a message out and said you know, can anyone help, can anyone help? And I kind of picked the people I trusted the most from those. I was surprised how many people came back, actually, and I picked the ones you know, sort of cherry, picked them a little bit. My main support was from my brother and my brother's awesome, because if you say, right, tim, at this time this thing needs to happen, there's no deviation from that. That's what happens. If you give my brother instructions, he follows it to the letter. You know, which in normal life can be a little bit frustrating, but for something like this, for crew in, he's the best crew ever. The only drama I had with him was he was like so when do I know when? How do I know when to throw in the towel? I know you don't throw in the towel, yeah, but how do I know? You know it is getting too bad to stop it. I thought, well, you don't stop it, it just doesn't stop until the end. And I try to get that because he's a bit of a warrior blessing. And I saw in the end I'd send her to him if you stop the time. And I saw in the end I'd send her to him if you stop this race. I swear to God I will never forgive you. And he was like, okay, I said, just leave it at that. But what I did do. I got a mate called Dan Lloyd, who I've done a few 24 hour, but I only I know him through 24 hour runs. That's how we met. We met it's horrible one where you have to just do hill repeats for 24 hours to try and climb the height of Everest. And I put him on the night shift because he knows 24 hour runs, he knows the night is really bad and he knows me very well. So I fought for a reassuring put. I thought the night will probably get quite bad. I need somebody who can reassure my brother there at the time and Dan was the best pick because he's done it so many times and he knows what it's like.

Speaker 2: 19:29

In what way would the night be bad?

Speaker 1: 19:31

Yeah, because the night's relative to light, isn't it?

Speaker 4: 19:33

Yeah, yeah so, but normally on a normal to 25 hour run. Normally they tend to go midday to midday. First bit is two to six. You know that, that mode, that time before, as soon as the sun comes up and the sun hits, you get that second wind, but that big. I always hit a massive low in that kind of four hour window before it. I tend to. You know it's a lapped one. I tend to wear a vest for that period so I don't stop because it's just miserable and if I stop you just sink into that whole miserable stage and it's hard to get back up. So even though I knew I wouldn't know what time it would be, I know, you know, my body clock's kind of set to that. I'd know it with night, probably, because it's going to be cold. I didn't know how it would affect, but I knew that once I was guessing that when I felt the sun on me again it would pick me up. So I thought that would be the hardest point in there. So that's why I threw Dan in there with my brother, which would turn out to be a good choice in the end.

Speaker 1: 20:41

And in that first trial, when you're running without those the sensory or even the balance properties, is it harder to actually run in a fluid way? Does it affect your connection with the ground, with your legs and your feet? It?

Speaker 4: 20:58

does. I thought I was going pretty fast but the thing was the string would be wrapped around a post so I'd be running and then it'd catch my hand and pull it back and then it'd run and then it'd catch my hand. So you kind of get interrupted every time you're trying to get into a low and every time you hit a post or a hurdle it sort of knocks you a little bit so that kind of you can't go as you normally would. And it's like normally when you just sort of you know you can just get into your headspace and just cruise along when you can't see or hear anything is strange. It makes it a lot harder to just have that confidence. Or just even on yours on the running track there's nothing that could possibly be in my way. You lose that confidence. You know. Not seeing what's in front of you Naturally slows you, naturally makes you more hesitant. And being yanked back every 10 meters or so by a post, you know, slowed me down. Once you've done it like 50 times, you kind of know where the posts are. You can almost skip them out. You get quite good at it. But in that first initial when that really slowed me right down and it made it did. I felt more comfortable than I thought it was, but it wasn't normal, you know, in any way.

Speaker 1: 22:14

And so then, with the attempt, how did well? Firstly, were you getting any updates on time or laps, or were you trying to count yourself?

Speaker 4: 22:28

Yeah, so this was so when I was thinking about this. I've had quite a few like digestion issues on runs this year, and then that's something I've been working on a lot this year is getting my nutrition correct and I kind of got it down. But it's all based on time. You know, every hour on these 60 grams of carbs, like a electrolyte, you know, every hour and a half I'll have a salt tablet. You know it's all worked out like that. So now I think, well, how am I going to fuel and know when to fuel when I'm doing this? So it sounds massively complicated, but it kind of worked. What I had is like a flat stone. My finger is flat stone, and so I'd have it pinched between my thumb and my hand and when I finished the lap I'd move it to my index finger and then to my ring, middle finger, ring finger, little finger. So when it hit my little finger I was like that's five laps. So I also had an elastic band around my thumb. So when I've done five laps, the elastic band came off my thumb and then went onto my index finger and no, no, no no no, no, no. So by the time it hit my ring finger, that's 20 laps. That's what 5k? I'd get a clothes peg, pull it on my string and go, that's 5k done, and then I'll go right. So that, because I appreciate it, I'd be going pretty slow. I was like 5k take on some carbs, take on some electrolyte, rinse and repeat, and that's kind of so. I was trying to measure my laps and this. I was trying to do everything by distance and I was doing that by stones, elastic bands and clothes pegs.

Speaker 1: 24:11

And is someone then giving you the drinks in there?

Speaker 4: 24:16

I had next to the track, so to know, I was at the start finish point. I had three posts together, so I knew that was the end of the lap and then if I kicked my foot out to the right, there I'd have my table, which I laid out. I could get to my table and then I knew on the left was snacks, in the middle was electrolyte and on the end was active root and my brother was in charge of making sure my electrolyte and active root got refilled and he's got a gut box of snacks and X miles that I was just eating from there.

Speaker 1: 24:48

Interesting and did does because, as you say before, we do nutrition for time, did it almost free you to do better with your nutrition?

Speaker 4: 25:04

I've yeah, I, it did help my nutrition massively because normally I have this plan. But you know it's like let's say you go and then you know you think of the oh, what I'm gonna do, steady pace, eight and a half, nine minute mile. Let's say you go, iron maiden comes on, you're running a six, 30 minute mile and you fuck everything up. So it just it made me wind everything right back in and I didn't have a single digest of this shit throughout the whole thing, but I did, I think for the last times during the event. I will guess, but I reckon for the last six hours I didn't take on anything. I didn't take on, no, I didn't, I didn't, not even maybe a little bit of water, but not really, but I didn't have any. But I think where I've fueled so well throughout, I just I sick of food and drink.

Speaker 1: 25:57

And it didn't change, because I'd imagine you'd look forward to the stops more than in a normal race, because there's nothing else to look forward to, there's no other.

Speaker 4: 26:10

No, the stops were horrendous. I dread this. Stops were the worst bit of it all. So when I set off you know when the actual event, when I started going, it was all going pretty well to begin with. I think I did no. So 20 laps is five miles, not five gates, sorry. So I've done about 15 miles and I thought you know what I'm just gonna sit down for a minute and there's a chair next to my table. Sat in that chair and it was like I was sinking. It was weird, weird sensation and it was like I was sinking into this hole. You know you get that sinking feeling in your stomach when something awful's happened. You get that real drain in your stomach. That hit me and I was like that's weird. And then I just fell so alone which I hadn't felt anything like that at this point. You know, I thought at this point I was doing these stops. I was thinking, dude, you're gonna 100 miles, look how quickly you're going. I look back at the videos now, and I'm plodding along.

Speaker 2: 27:26

But what made you sit down, though? Because sitting down at 20 miles is that's very early to start sitting down. What was going through your mind, then? Because something must have triggered that.

Speaker 4: 27:37

I was just like everything's going so well, everything you know, in my mind I was setting a good pace and I was like just don't burn yourself out, just have a couple of minutes. You know sitting, eat properly, not on the move, Just have five minutes, get your thoughts together and then get going. I just wanted that, just that you know, everything was going great. I didn't want to fucking go too hard, too fast. I was just chilling and just taking my time with it and, yeah, it was horrible.

Speaker 1: 28:11

Was that the only time you sat down?

Speaker 4: 28:13

No, I sat there and I was like this is horrendous, that's just just get the running again. So we're back on the track, started going again and it was like you know it's back on the track and it was. You know running is kind of familiar and you know the string is really reassuring. I don't understand why that was, but there's something about holding that string sort of around, really reassuring.

Speaker 2: 28:42

When you sat down, did you let go of the string. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, there we go. The constant in your life has disappeared for that moment.

Speaker 1: 28:51

Put your hands up. Are you holding the string now Is it your comfort blanket.

Speaker 4: 28:57

Dude, until about three nights ago I had the elastic band man, something about that elastic band, but it died.

Speaker 2: 29:09

And that's amazing, though, isn't it, that your mind can play tricks that you probably you know, because you don't have any other senses and all you've got is your mind Like, and then just not being able to trust it. In those situations, like you, just literally all you did was sit down and stop movement of your body, and your mind switched like that. That's incredible.

Speaker 4: 29:29

Yeah, it got so much worse.

Speaker 2: 29:34

You know, my mind was, that was just a taster, that was the absolute taster.

Speaker 4: 29:37

When I came, yeah yeah, I was like, oh yeah, I knew it would be tough. I knew mentally it would be tough and I knew there'd be lots of stuff, I don't know. I knew there may be lots of stuff come up. So I had a bit of crap time at the start of the year and I thought this will be a test of. You know, have I put everything to bed? You know, it's quite nice as well. I've got a very good friend, ang, and she's spoke to me every day this year and been with me on this whole journey. And I said to her before I do this, I want to speak to you last, you know, and I just thanked her for all the stuff she had done for me and she's a really good pal, she's a bloody good runner and she's helped me a lot.

Speaker 1: 30:28

Just out of interest is are we what level of tough time are we talking? Are we talking bereavement? Are we talking business? Are we talking?

Speaker 4: 30:37

Okay. So December I found out my dad's got terminal cancer, and then in January my wife cheated on me and left me. So, it was a bit of a turmoil.

Speaker 1: 30:49

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 30:49

So I thought this, will you know, I've worked, you know, I thought, if I haven't dealt with anything, this will show up in this. So I had that in the back of my head as I was going.

Speaker 1: 30:58

I was like, okay, let's see what comes and has in the other 100 miles. Have those thoughts played with you?

Speaker 4: 31:06

Oh yeah, cause you could just think about everything, don't you? You're doing that. It's that time you rerun your whole life and you think about everything. And you do you're, you're a motionist, do that, don't know it's a bloody roller coaster stuff, but it's. I was always asked the fact to some some I can't remember it was by the little wind, if you before this and they're like, why do you need 25 out of aces? I was like, dude, it's two years of counseling in one day. You know, you've sought so much stuff out through those things. It's awesome. So yeah, so I was quite, you know, apprehensive about this going into this thing. But on the plus side, no issues, dude, I'm like the most well-rounded person I know. None of that stuff came, but I was like I've put that to the wrong side. What did start to happen? So I'm going round, and I'm going round, and it's all okay, and it started to get a bit colder. I thought it may be nighttime and then, oh yeah, so I was going round and I could smell a bonfire, like a proper bonfire, and as I got to one corner on the track, I could feel the heat on my side. I was like this is weird, so I went back in there. I don't know how long I've been going there, it's been quite a while and I thought why not stop? So I stopped, sat in the chair and I was like cause I talked? I like talking, so it didn't stop me talking the fact I couldn't talk to anyone, and I was just like is there a bonfire going on around here, because it stinks of fire? And then it turned out like after the fact my brother said to me there was a faint whiff like a firework had gone off. He said there was no heat and he said he only noticed it cause I brought it up. So obviously my smell was kicking in heavy. I'd lost everything else. But then I sort of sat in this chair and it was like I was looking at like a scene. It was black like and then like a horizon, and the black went to a slightly lighter gray and then loads of stars and if I looked up I could look around and I've seen like a panoramic of stars.

Speaker 1: 33:15

The VO headset.

Speaker 4: 33:16

Yeah, yeah, I did say this is like a shit is VO game. I've been afraid and I sat there thinking, well, if I can see all these stars now, like how many are real? Yeah, well, I can actually see how many are actually real, because this is so weird. And that was the first sort of hallucination I had and it was a bit bizarre, but it was quite cool, I didn't mind it, I quite liked it and I thought, anyway, well, enough of that. So I got up and I started running again and I don't know I think it's around now. My ears were hurting Like my ears were hurting really, really bad and I thought it was the earmuffs I had on and the pain was starting to get quite intense. I've kind of worked out speaking to people afterwards. This pain went on for about 10 hours of the run and normally when you're running you get a bit of a pain. Everyone gets pain when they run. At some point you can kind of flick the tune you're listening to or look at something different and distract your brain away from that pain. When there's no distraction, you're completely focused on that pain and it was it was. It was crippling. It was the worst running of pain I've ever had and it took me 10 hours to figure out. My blindfold has slipped down and the band was sat on the top of my ears and it was just frictioning the top of my ears the only blisters I've had from running in the last few years. What it is? They were minging at the end of the minute Like minging. I went to the co-op a couple of days after. I was walking around and everyone was staring at me like I was some kind of freak and I thought what's that problem? I got back in the car and I looked and my ear was just bleeding all down the side of my head. Oh God.

Speaker 2: 35:08

And because and because you had, like you, completely lacking a sense is you couldn't feel any pain. No, you could feel a pain, but you couldn't sense where the pain was from.

Speaker 4: 35:18

I don't think about what I thought. The top of the these head fine things I had on, I thought they were pushing down. So I kept trying to adjust them up a little bit, got them pushing down. But there's only so far you can push it. And then I was like I just have to get on with it. But it was. I was crippling at some points and it wasn't so I was faffing about it. Then my beach found a back and I felt the headband from the, from the blindfold, was right down the bottom of my neck and I was like hang on a minute and I pulled it up. Pain went. I thought you bloody twat. I was so annoyed at myself. But at least it stopped that.

Speaker 1: 35:57

But yeah, and how would you say you're because? How does the time change? No-transcript. In those 24 hours would you say that you could have go through a progression or a regression of thoughts? Do you go into different areas compared to a normal 100 mile and normal 24 hour?

Speaker 4: 36:21

Oh, yes, yes. So the first bit was all right and it's going right. Then I started seeing the stars, and that's all right. And then the whole thing changed. The whole thing just became the most horrific experience for myself, because I've been through. I was I don't know what time it was. It was been dark, it was a night at some point and I was plodding along and I looked down and then I could see completely my frontman carpet. It was there under my feet and I was running through my frontman and I was like that's weird. And it lit up like it was daytime in my frontman and I looked up and there was my cap in its bed in front of me. So I jumped out of the way, so I didn't kick my cap and then it stopped and I was like that's weird. So I got back on the string, started going again and then I sign of sort process, what just happened, and I looked down and then I was on a country track, like literally on a country track, and I looked up. Its daytime. I can see the fields, the hedges, bloody farmhouse over there, and I can see it all. And I look back round and then there's a ditch and I jumped out of the way to avoid the ditch and I was like you know, and then that just kept happening. So we going along and suddenly I'm in a house in the state and I'm running down the road and the car pulls out and I jump out of the way and it was just. It's so hard to run when you're doing that and my head's like trying to come to what is this? That's going on.

Speaker 2: 37:54

Are all these things that you've recognised, that you've seen before, or these completely fabricated, apart from the only, the only one was my front row.

Speaker 4: 38:03

I was late when I saw my hallway always a carpet, but everything else. Now I was like you know, I was in the mountains, man, and the snow was on the ground and I could you know, you smell fresh snow, I can literally smell it. And then suddenly I was like dropping down a rocky track and I suddenly break myself and it was like. So my brain was in two sides. One side would generate this scenario, throw in a hazard and before my rational brain could say it's not real, I would jump out of the way to react to it. And it was going on and on and it was dry at one point. Do you think you were sleeping? I don't think. No, I think it was. That I was in that weird in between. I don't know what it was, but I remember one point I didn't realise. I did it out loud, but I was told I did. I literally just stopped on the track and I was like fucking raging myself and I was like it's not fucking real, mate, stop fucking reacting to it, because it was really frustrating man, and I was like this is doing my head in, and so this kept going on and on and on and what were your brother and the others Like?

Speaker 1: 39:18

what were they making a bit of?

Speaker 4: 39:26

So it was about four in the morning. I know this because of speaking to that Dan I was talking about with my brother. I was like I can't cope with this and I sat in my chair and they were quite worried at this and my brother turned around to Dan and was like, what do we do? And Dan was like, look, hopefully he nods off. And he said if he nods off, we have to wake him up after 10 minutes Because if he sleeps more for more than 10 minutes he will kill us tomorrow. You know he would be happy to have a 10 minute nap, but he won't be happy if we let him sleep longer than that. And I was like, ok, what if he doesn't nod off? And now I'm like fucking off, I think we've got an issue here because he ain't right. And I was sat in that chair. I was sat in that chair and I was like trying to get my head, to get my body parts going on here, and then I just saw this massive trial, right Upside down trial, and it was do you remember Maus Tract, the ball game?

Speaker 1: 40:27

Yes, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: 40:28

Yeah, with a little net yeah.

Speaker 1: 40:30

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 40:30

Yeah, had one of them right stuck in him and he was malving. Help me to me. And I sat down as I know, definitely not. You are a child to me and you have absolutely no business playing Maus Tract. And then I was like what? I was like, dude, what the fuck is wrong with your head that your brain has generated that image? And then all these images started coming. It was like being in some kind of weird waking nightmare. It was like weird faces. There was like a national who, like, looked like had been gone through radiation and his face was melting off and he was like right there. And then it was just all this whole shit.

Speaker 1: 41:13

Do you get a sense of why? Have you kind of thought through what your brain was trying to do?

Speaker 4: 41:19

I had no idea and I was just. I was just sat there and I was in proper turmoil. At this point I thought this is so messed up, but you can't shut it off. You can't close your eyes and get rid of it, you can't shut it off in any way. It's just happening over and over and again and at that point I did think to myself. I was like dude, if you don't, you know, with everything that's going on at the minute, if you don't take off this stuff, there is a very real chance with all this shit you've read on Google, there is a very real chance you may go mad, beyond the point of coming back, and I thought that was a very serious possibility, like you may do yourself some damage here. So you need to take this stuff off, you. You you're going to mess yourself up permanently. Then I sat there and I said, well, what do I do with that? And I thought this was my idea. No one asked me to do this. No one has ever done this. This was all my idea. I have put myself in this situation and I've made a commitment to this charity. So that's on me, man, and if I do go mad, that's on me. That's on me, but I have to fulfill my obligation to this charity and finish this thing. And I was like you're just going to have to suck it up, dude, and get on with it. And that was a happy thought. But then I thought I partied up with my headlight in my hands and just like fucking despair, like I don't know what I'm going to do. And that's when I saw my hallway carpet. And this was like quite an emotional moment because I just saw my boys feet like they walked in left and right and I could just see their shoes and they went come on, dad, you've got this. And I was like fucking hell, that proper choked me up. And then I looked up and everything was like a purple, you know, like a purple neck curtain which was badly lit from like a nod you know those like silhouette sit-in bar type things. It was like that. And there was these lights which were coming towards it and they were changing shape and I just had this real feeling of like fear and dread and I was like, when these lights get here, I'm screwed. And I was like I just get up, man, just get up. So I got up and I got in the robe and I was like I just like my brother said this, because he was like you were just like head down broken. We're like what's he going to do here? And I just remembered, years ago I had this guy come to me in my clinic and he had cluster headaches. So literally every day this guy was suffering the worst migraine, all day. They call him suicide headaches and a miracle because people just can't cope with it. And I remember saying to him I was like man, how do you live like this? You know, how can you get through this? And he said to me he goes, happiness is choice. He says that every day I look myself in the mirror and I say you can decide to be happy or you can decide to let this be you, and I was like I know that's what I thought. I thought, yeah, that's it. Happiness is a choice and I can either decide to wallow in despair here or I can just put a smile on my face and just get going. And then he said it was all broken. I just stood up straight and just went. And then that was me. I tried not to stop again after that and it never got as bad as that. The scenarios kept changing, which was annoying, and the only way I could stop it was if I visualised a music video, so if I created my own image, so I just picture a music video. Then I had the song in my head which stopped at least speaking thoughts. I had it. Which?

Speaker 1: 45:06

songs were they, which is rich for.

Speaker 4: 45:10

There's not a lot of music videos around anymore, is there? I was wracking my brain like back to MTV days and I listened to Looks that Killed by Motley Crue about 462 times. There was the only music video I could remember and so I just had Motley Crue carry me through to the end. Yeah, so it got. And then I could feel the warmth of the sun and I was like, ok, it must be getting to daytime now. It must be beyond dawn because you don't really feel the heat at least an hour after the sun's up. And so I was just trying to. It got easier then I was trying to block everything out, but I remember thinking, you know, this was a weird thing. So my brother said to me after he was like, why are you doing it? I was like doing ducks with my hands. He was like, why are you doing that? I could see my hands. I looked, I could see my hands Every behind. It was great, but I could see my hands and my fingers and I could move them and I could see it perfectly and I was just mesmerised by it just doing weird stuff, my hands a little bit. I have a little changing tent which I've taken to all my events, and when I went to unzip it, I could see the tent, I could see the zip, I could see the little tear which the zip always gets caught on so accurately. I could just grab the zip, pull the tear back, unzip and down and I thought and have you spoken?

Speaker 1: 46:32

to Since blind people to ask them if they Are they visualising previous experiences in the same way? I haven't. No, I haven't.

Speaker 4: 46:44

I would be interested. But yeah, it was very strange. Certain things I could see very clearly. And then when? You finally finished. What was that actually like? To take the?

Speaker 1: 46:57

blind fold off to take the headphones off. Well, I thought. I think it was a bit of a shame.

Speaker 4: 47:06

I thought I must be done in a minute, I must be, and I really needed the toilet and I thought, well, I'm not going to go to, I don't want my finale 20,000 to be up while I'm on the bulk. So I was like, just keep going. And it was going on and on, and on and on. And that's how I plus the hell. And I said to my brother I said the way you let me know it's over, is you put both hands on my shoulders? And I said I'm going to put my hands on the floor. I put both hands on my shoulders and then I know that the time's up. So I was going on and then I felt these hands on my shoulders. I knew it was only halfway round this lap and I said to him I said, mate, if this is over, tap me twice on my shoulder. And he did. I said okay. I said mate, run in with me please. And that was really nice because he'd been with there the whole time. So he put his hand on my shoulder and we ran that last half lap together. And as we were running along I was like look, mate, you know I've got a really good sense of humour and I can take a joke, but if you fuckers have, let me do three extra laps as a laugh. Don't tell me for at least 48 hours, man.

Speaker 1: 48:15

It's a real sense of humour, mate, and how long would you say it actually felt those 24 hours, compared to when you've done 100 mile and tracked 24?

Speaker 4: 48:30

It was, yeah, it felt a hell of a long longer. It felt like a day and a half it was. You know, it dragged and the cold it must have been a night, you know, because it's the cold, that cold period just felt like it didn't end, and waiting to feel we're actually warmed up by the sun just felt like that, felt like a day in itself. Just that period through there it just never seemed to end. It was, um, it felt like a day, not like two days, but a day. It's 36 hours. It felt like easy and uh, yeah. So then I got to the end and, um, everyone's dead nervous about me taking the stuff off. Like, you know, would I be really sensitive to sound or light or whatever? I took it off and I was just buzzing and I knew, just because there was people, you know, and there was just people to talk to, and I was just, uh, the, the noise didn't really bug me, the light took a little bit of adjusting, obviously, so I had blindfold on all that time, so it took a few seconds for my eyes to adjust. And then, yeah, and it was almost like everyone was waiting to treat me with cotton wool because they didn't know what to stay up in. But, um, I went over to my mate Angie, and she was with her fellow Kenzie and Kenzie was like yeah, mate, I got you some thatches and I thought I'd fucking hell and I was just cracking over side of that, that was the best thing I could have had. It was like, oh, I got you some health bars and I was like fuck that mate, almost.

Speaker 1: 50:01

And it tells us the did it. Did it help you raise a lot more money than the 75 pounds a year before?

Speaker 4: 50:07

Yeah, it got 3,119 pounds. Man, I was so pleased with that. What it also did was get Julia's house, like name, out massively. We were on BBC South and ITV West and every local BBC radio station in the country ran the story. Steve Lamac did a bloody phone in about it, so it was the awareness for Julia's house, which was the massive part it really got that over everything Raised the 3,119 pounds. I couldn't believe it. I didn't tell anyone near close to that.

Speaker 1: 50:43

And have you done another 24 hours since, or another 100 miles since.

Speaker 4: 50:48

No, that was not totally. I've done a 46 mile since and I did one up in Breckon last month but yeah, no, it's just not the same.

Speaker 2: 50:58

When you can see the root and see other people and this that have you, it's, you know, all like the images you saw and the things that have came up and everything. Have you experienced those since in dreams, or have they come back to you or is there any kind of like you know? Repercussions other repercussions like things, things like that, you know all sort of like post traumatic stress or something like that. That's, that's happened as a result of it.

Speaker 4: 51:24

Yeah, so the. So I finished on a Sunday and my mother was down for visiting and she was like you must be tired going to bed, like now. I'm my own mother that's watching from moving. I made my mum stay on the safe in which I filmed with me till I fell asleep and I just couldn't go to bed for about three nights and if I closed my eyes I was like getting heart palpitations and like not panic attacks, but I could feel it as I like I couldn't do that. Yeah, my youngest boy was ripping the piss out of me because he'd come down and say good night, are you going to go to bed, dad? I'm like no mate. You know I'm not going to bed. I don't want to go into dark. I think he was ripping the piss with the tele on and the lights on and I just like waiting till I passed out. I couldn't lie, you know, I'd have to pass out, I couldn't close my eyes and go to sleep. And that went on for, yeah, about good three nights, um, and then I thought I was exhausted, man. Yeah, I mean, I'd hand slept well and I'd fall and I hadn't slept at all during the night and I was getting, you know, a couple of hours of sleep on a night. I was absolutely exhausted and I was like I just need, you know, just to suck it up and and just go to that bedroom and turn the lights off. And I did, and once I did it, then I was all right. Um, I did have my uh elastic band on. That helped that, would you? Would you do it again? Fuck, no, no, not from the tea in China, mate, definitely not it was horrendous it was. It was the worst thing I've ever done. Um. I'm really glad I did it. Um. It was a. It was a great. You know what's? My mate called it? Resilience training. It was good resilience training thank you.

Speaker 2: 53:12

It feels like it's gone slightly beyond resilience training.

Speaker 1: 53:15

I'm surprised.

Speaker 2: 53:16

I'm surprised, like, um, there was no like interest from like, uh, you know kind of universities or anything else like that in terms of like sleep deprivation training and things like that there's. I mean, they, they seem to be doing that stuff all the time and you know, getting people to do those things. This seems to be kind of very kind of extreme version of that and I thought you know they'd be so interested in. You know what happens when physical exertion plus sleep deprivation. You know, and, um, you know sensory. You know sensory deprivation with it as well yeah, I've got um.

Speaker 4: 53:49

She's psychotherapist something I'm treating her at the minute and when she found out about it she was fuming. She was like, if I'd known I could have interviewed you beforehand, after, and then four weeks down the line, she could have been like paper on it, because it's such an opportunity, you know. So I'm not good at self efficiency, I'm I struggle with that, so I probably didn't push it out as much as I should have done. Yeah, it was an opportunity to have something because I was chatting to someone and they were like, oh you did some weird stuff, mate, it's. You know it was. It was just a thing. You know, like, it's not just a thing. You ran. An ultra deaf and blind known in the world has ever run an ultra deaf and blind man. That's not the world first, that's a big deal yeah, people are pushing.

Speaker 2: 54:38

People are pushing the boundaries in, you know, physically and things like that, but in terms of what you've done, you've pushed it in a completely different way, like in a way that, no, no one else has, in a way that it feels it was unpredictable as well, yeah exactly like no one knew what was going to happen there no, no, it's a stupid idea and I love the way that everyone just went before I go. Oh, we kind of wash our hands of this. No one knows what's going to happen.

Speaker 4: 55:04

Yeah, yeah, I was really worried that they were going to go that, no, you can't, man, because it's too high risk. So I didn't lie. I just kind of heavily implied my insurance had it covered. I didn't.

Speaker 1: 55:17

I didn't even check but and and do you think it's changed you? Or, if you take, what have you taken away from it?

Speaker 4: 55:23

yeah, massively. I just feel, um, I don't know, yeah, I just feel massively strong. I don't know what else life could throw at me that I can cope with. Now you know, just I just feel, yeah, like I can pretty much part with anything. So it makes me feel very confident in just not like, but confident in that, you know, anything that comes along I'm going to be able to deal with that. All right, you know, if I can cope with that, then I can cope with most things and the end the the.

Speaker 1: 55:57

You're trying to make a point to your children. Did they receive that point?

Speaker 4: 56:03

they um what was it? They said well, we do get 100 miles a digit. You know, they're very supportive, my kids, oh record dude, like you know, you could have done a bit. All right, they're my worst critic that's good.

Speaker 2: 56:21

That's good. They have high expectations of you. That's the thing, if they were just like oh well done, oh well done you. That would have been, that would have been worse. Do you know, knowing that you have experienced all of those things and you, you know you saw lots of images and visions and things like that have you tried to kind of analyze what order, to have some real understanding of what any of that meant? You know, and then people analyze dreams and stuff slightly different, but you know, obviously, things bubbling from your, your subconscious, and you know, and obviously you've made the really smart decision to, you know, get, get, you know the baggage that you're holding dealt with before, before having that experience, because that could have been even even worse. Um, but is there any sense of what some of that stuff meant, or or is it just completely abstract and no real idea?

Speaker 4: 57:11

um, I don't know, like I've thought about it a bit, but, um, I haven't really really thought about it. I only the woman who was annoyed that I hadn't spoke to her before. I said you need to write down what you what you saw, because you forget it, um, and it's important, and so I did. I've made some like notes of what happened, but, as to working out why, the only thing I think of with, like, the different scenarios and the hazards was a combination of, like, say, fatigue and, um, disorientation and boredom and pulling my brain going into a little survival mode of like you need to stop this. So the constant hazards were kind of like you need to stop now, because this is this is that's why how I rationalize it yeah, it was trying to stop me doing this thing. Um, the stuff when I sat in the chair, like I pull in the morning, all the flight them, the violent horror images and all the rest of it, I ain't got a clue about comfortable.

Speaker 1: 58:15

I don't want to know, man, what I'm gonna say is that is, that was on the right, you know you don't want to dwell on it too much, because you don't yeah, I don't know what that was about.

Speaker 4: 58:29

Um, and yeah, I'm just because I was sinking in my headlight, you know it was so bad, I was like, but this is coming from you, this is coming from you yeah, what's sick?

Speaker 2: 58:39

sick mind is behind this.

Speaker 4: 58:40

Yeah, wait a minute, yeah what the fuck is wrong with you, man, that this is what your volume creates. Uh, that was like fucking stressing out, but um, yeah, so I'll just box that off. You know that happened, that was the thing, but I'm not going to dwell on that. I don't want to know what that was about, and so gone and you now do.

Speaker 1: 59:00

You know, because some people do something like this and it then becomes the first of many ever growing, changing challenges. Do you feel that's going to be your future or are you happy with this?

Speaker 4: 59:13

this I already had. So all of this like year has been built up to next year's. I kind of see that as a training year. Next year I want to do the well just paid for the century in 100 mile grand slam, so that's been my running challenge. But I still have to raise money for the charity next year. So how'd you top? You know, how'd you top what I've just done?

Speaker 1: 59:38

So you've got to cut out that smell so you don't get in the fires.

Speaker 2: 59:41

Oh, joe, imagine the idea of running what's it called running the Thames Path.

Speaker 1: 59:48

100 blindfolded through Reading, that is probably the word that's probably the probably nice than having to look at.

Speaker 2: 59:54

I was going to say experience reading, but the idea, the idea of doing the Thames Path 100 next to the Thames with the blindfold, and you need that bit of string, that string is to be pulled aside.

Speaker 4: 1:00:07

Yeah, no, I won't use. I won't use the century in events for fun ways. I've got a rough idea. I was thinking of so the woman who set up Jr's house. She was a great Ormond Street nurse who moved to Dorset, set up a hospice there, then did a set from one in Wiltshire. So I was thinking of doing a unassisted run from Great Ormond Street down to the hospice at Dorset and then round up to the devices, one that'd be about 200 mile. So I was thinking maybe I'll do something like that. Step away from you know, still big enough that people are going to go. Okay, you've never done that before. So it's where I'm sponsoring. But you know, maybe just leave the sensory stuck alone for a minute.

Speaker 1: 1:00:53

If people want to follow your journey in the future and donate. What are your socials and what's the best way to find the donation page?

Speaker 4: 1:01:01

So I'm spying I can't say it spying to clinic on Instagram and Facebook. Julius House. There's a link in my bio on Instagram towards Julius House my fundraising for them. I think that page is shut at the minute, but if you want to give me a chance to do this, you can always do it directly through their website.

Speaker 1: 1:01:25

Amazing. Well, thanks so much for coming on the podcast. Thanks. I love you Well done for getting through what sounds like an incredibly intense experience, and if you do take on the 200 mile-a-ter devise, it's good luck with that, thank, you very much. Yes, one of those challenges where you hear it and you just have no sense of how hard it would be.

Speaker 2: 1:01:56

Literally no sense. No senses in any way of how hard it would be. Yeah, it is one of those weird ones, isn't it? I do think it's quite a good edge. But I do think it's quite a good edge, I think it is, I think it's. But right from the start you think, oh, that's going to on a 24 hours, knowing what it's like on a, if I'm running that period of time having to deal with the hardest parts of that without, I mean, just the stuff you take for granted, yeah, imagine just you know, just like oh, something's gone wrong, oh, I can just check it. Oh, something's gone wrong, oh, I can just have a look. Yeah, do that. You're just not being able to do any of that.

Speaker 1: 1:02:37

And the fact that you, that he at one point genuinely was thinking am I about to lose my mind here forever? I'm just visualizing the scene in Flash Gordon where they're trying to brainwash the other scientists the bearded guy, and he's trying to. I think he holds on to Beethoven or Mozart or Symphony or something to try and keep his mind intact and just seeing those visuals bombard the brain.

Speaker 2: 1:03:08

Well, thank you it's weird, but it's weird. I mean it's weird, isn't it? Because I think we've we've spoken to different people who've done different types of races. I think even G-Law saw a ghost several times on on the dragon's back and everything.

Speaker 1: 1:03:20

Some beer lovers, beer lovers man, just the strength of some of those videos.

Speaker 2: 1:03:26

It's not, it's G-Law. That wasn't a ghost, that was some of your fellow runners like.

Speaker 1: 1:03:30

That's just it was ghostbusters, it was Mark Menage it was Menage.

Speaker 2: 1:03:36

It's a Ku Klux Klan member, as he likes to do. No. But the. Thing is. That's the thing, isn't it? You do worry. What is my subconscious going to throw up Like that is it's the ultimate thing, isn't it? You go how, how psychotic am I deep down, and that's what you really want to find out.

Speaker 1: 1:03:53

Yeah, and going into it with that awareness of how it must be absolutely brutal start of the year. So to go in there knowing that that could rear its head and and also, you know we speak to people like James, Paul and Alfie about their hallucinations on long runs, and but that's normally at least reacting to your surroundings and playing with the surroundings.

Speaker 2: 1:04:21

That's it. Yes, absolutely. A tree turns into a lion. You look on the floor with those like spiders, and yeah, that's it. And then it's the interplay of light and your imagination, things like that. But then if it's all coming from your head, everything you are seeing is is is from your, your, your subconscious, I mean that is. That on its own is frightening.

Speaker 1: 1:04:42

Yeah, yeah, absolutely Well, I'm sorry I can't remember who suggested suggested them as a guest, but thank you very much for that. And Alex is great and, as we always say, there's any people, any stories, any races, any topics you'd like us to discuss, and do message us, david, at badboyrunningcom or directly on Instagram, and if it's something that's a bit different or just incredible, then we will go out and get them on there. So, in terms of future guests, we've got lined up. We have, I think Dan. Dan Barra had suggested a lady who's done a 50 K ultra on LSD, so we're going to talk to her.

Speaker 2: 1:05:22

We might be the perfect accompaniment to this one Do you external drugs or subconscious?

Speaker 1: 1:05:30

Like what? What's the crazy? We discuss more. We're going to be thinking to hopefully back to Zach Bitter about how he's been doing a low carb, focus on ultra running very successfully at the 100 mile record before Alexander Sorok can beat it. So they're very high level runner and we've got well. I'm trying to get a cast of Semeny on it at the moment but I don't know how likely that is. But who knows, who knows? But any suggestions, let us know. Please do review us because it really helps on Spotify or on iTunes or wherever it is. It really helps above visibility.

Speaker 2: 1:06:07

If you want to join the conversation, head over to Facebook. Type in badboyrunning podcast and join the conversation there. If you want to buy merch, go to storebadboyrunningcom.

Speaker 1: 1:06:16

That's just in, guys, and we'll see you next time.

Speaker 2: 1:06:18

See you later. Bye-bye you.